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Hi Chris, thanks for the email. You can use any grill you like as long as it meets a couple of requirements. Most grills will work just fine. Have a look here at the requirements for each size of drum:
https://blackbalsam.co/rkdrums/index.php/how-to1/which-grill-should-i-buy
-ShaneEzra. This is perhaps the most fascinating question I’ve heard in a long time. So there are several discussion points here. Let’s talk about rotational speed first. I honestly believe that the slower you turn the drum the longer the coffee is exposed to the flame with every pass. It’s over the fire longer and on the hot metal of the drum longer. This equates to the coffee feeling the intense heat longer at every pass which translates to a faster roast time. Its always been understood generally speaking that 6rpm was the bare minimum give or take about 2rpm for getting a decent roast. This would be less pronounced in a 2lb drum since it’s such a relatively small mass as compared to the larger drums. But dropping into the 1-2rpm range universally it is reported unsatisfactory roasts.
Beyond this, there is the subject of airflow. You may have noticed that some roasters ln, particular of the commercial variety have some mechanism to recirculate hot air through the beans mass while it roasts. This feature has been attempted by a few RK’ers even in the grill by mounting circulating fans to move the air around. This is something that I personally attribute as fun gadgetry and fun experiments but largely useless if you’re spinning the drum between 40-60rpm since its generating a relatively high amount of airflow even without fans, as the coffee spins at 40-60 rpm through the roast chamber. This usually results in a far more even roast and some say that that increased speed translates to a better body in the coffee though I must say my palate isn’t quite so good to tell you for sure. Anything much more than 60 rpm will be excessive causing the coffee to pin to the drum walls from the centrifugal forces. We don’t want that.
Therefore, It is my personal belief that 40-60 rpms generates the best body, and evenly roasted coffee over slower roasted coffee.
What then about your acceptable roast times even though you’re at a slower speed?
It would appear to me that you are setting a temperature and then letting the time go where it goes. You’ll get a relatively good time regardless but I would suggest flipping those variables and adjusting your temperature up and down dynamically to target your prescribed roast time. So you spin for 40-60 rpm and then adjust the heat up to speed up the roast and adjust eat down to slow the roast so that you eventually are able to target the first and second crack times for the volume your roasting. That combination of speed and targeting time is generally the model I always go by and teach and get great results. With that said, I’ve never claimed to have all the answers. You just might have found a better way. If you think so, share your results because you’ll help all of us become better if so. Coffee is subjective. One mans treasure is another man’s dirt and vice versa. Explore and report back!
Thanks,
Shane D. Lewis
Thanks for the email! I do think that will work for a 2LB, however, if you can get into 35,000 for a few dollars more, that will give you expandability into a 4LB/5LB drum (only a drum replacement) with all the same equipment if you want to go there at some point.
-ShaneThanks for the quick response, Shane. Do you have any suggestions? This would be used exclusively for roasting.
-MarcI have plenty of suggestions! But you should give me a call and we can talk things through… as to grill, however…. the coffee literally doesn’t care…. it just needs a hot box to roast in….. preferably 35K-40K BTU for expandability…. (if you want to do that) and having a rotisserie slot. Some people roast in beer kegs, in mud ovens, in brick ovens… as long as it’s a box and holds heat, and you can put the required heat under then coffee, that’s the entirety of roasting well here. So don’t fret much about one grill vs. another…
Buy one that physically is sturdy enough for your purpose, and if you ever plan on growing the hobby/business or think you might plan for the future. Make sure from the rotisserie slot measuring down to the tallest object below (take the metal meat grates out) ..usually the tallest object below is the burner diffusers, you need to have 5″ of space…. and 35K BTU for 4LB, 40K BTU for 6LB and 45k BTU for 8LB, and 45K+ for 12LB…. and you can upgrade to any of those drums with the 2LB kit…. just by swapping the drum out for the bigger size drum. (Note that with the 12LB drum you will need to have 6″ vertical space instead of 5″ for the smaller kits…
Call me and I might be able to explain it better.
Have a look at this link as well…
https://blackbalsam.co/rkdrums/index.php/how-to1/which-grill-should-i-buy
-ShaneHi Ed, thanks for the email. Sorry to hear you are having trouble. I am absolutely confident that the majority of your trouble is caused by the slow turning rotisserie motor. we have found that universally anything below six RPMs generates uneven roasts, with optimal speed to being between 40 and 60 RPMs, and acceptable results being above 10 RPMs or so. I am confident simply spinning your drum faster will resolve the issue. Standard barbecue Rotisserie motors rotisserie motors are no longer available generally speaking above 2 RPM. Some people use electric drills, or pretty much any motor that spins faster than 20 RPMs will be just fine. People use electric drills also, or pretty much any motor that spins faster than 20 or PMs will be just fine. We also sell the great Motor on the website that spins at 52. If after that you were still having issues I would put a metal plate in the bottom of your grill to even out the heat. Let me know if you have any other thoughts or questions
-ShaneHi Matt, thanks for the email. I’ll try to address all the points in your question.
First regarding grill choice. The only thing of primary importance is being able to fit the drum and of heat output. People use all kinds of closed boxes to heat the coffee. If it’s a closed space and can hold heat it will work. Some folks use adobe ovens, brick ovens, beer kegs, etc…so if it will hold heat then it will work. That’s why I say don’t spend lots of money on a grill for the sake of getting better coffee. The coffee really doesn’t care. Is that to say we should ignore aesthetics, efficiency, and durability? No… if you want to buy a grill with those features, then, by all means, feel free as you will see durability, aesthetic and efficiency benefits, but don’t expect the coffee to care one way or the other. Even were you to buy an inefficient grill, you can do sheet metal mods which are quick and simple to improve dramatically the efficiency.
The important thing is that you have the heat output. I did look at your three selections, and it’s difficult for me to say without knowing what size drum you want. (Sorry just saw the 8LB drum choice in the subject line) It is strongly recommended the following heat outputs on the main burner for the following drums:
2LB=25000+
4LB=35000+
6LB=40000+
8LB=45000+
12LB=45000 or 50000(preferred)You can buy a grill too hot, so I wouldn’t want any more than 60,000. Note that some grill mfg, will include the side burner in the BTU rating, so beware of that. You want the main burner BTU to meet or exceed the above. Is it possible to do it with less than the rating? yes, but you have to do the sheet metal mods and you won’t have much heat overhead when you need it. Therefore stay away if you can from the infrared grills as they usually are very underpowered, however delivering even heating. Still it’s not worth the trade since we can simply place sheet metal in the bottom of the grill if that were necessary.
So for your 8LB drum, the only grill that appears to have sufficient BTU is this one:
https://www.lowes.com/pd_606674-82210-463240115___?productId=50287131&pl=1&Ntt=48000+btuYou suggested that grill size vs drum size was important. This is minorly true. If the grill is three times the size of the drum, then yes it won’t be quite as efficient, so best to choose a grill whose size is slightly larger than that of the drum, but don’t worry yourself too much with this, the savings are likely immeasurably small.
As to the longevity of the system? If you make an effort to keep it out of the weather, you will get MANY years out of the system. To give my example, I roast on a 4LB and a 6LB system, two grills, both built in 2002 and 2003, $99 and $119 respectively, with sheet metal mods. They stay in the garage when not in use. So that’s like, what? 13-14 years? They are all original equipment, with no parts replacements in all these years save for the rubber spider grommet used to mesh the rod to the motor. Those tend to wear out once every year or two. But they are designed for replacement. We sell them here, free shipping for a 3 pack for $15. Give me a call and we can talk your scenario through and get all your questions covered in a bit more detail.
Thanks
-ShaneAdam,
you can remove the diffusers if you need to so you can get the required 5″ of clearance. Whether the flame contacts or not is a minor concern, preferably not contacting would be my preference if I had to choose. Some people rather like the “flame-kist” coffee flavor, even overshadowing their own commercial Ambex commercial roasters.
-ShaneAre you able to turn the speed of your rotisserie motor down? I roast about 50rpm and usually roast 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 pounds at a time. Depending on the bean and where it is from makes a difference too. Some beans are fast roasters others are slow. My Colombian and Costa Rican’s take 20 minutes to first crack at 550 – when I see the temp begin to rise as the exothermic reaction begins to happen with the bean. When first crack happens I start my timer (stopwatch) – when I hear 1st crack slow down and beginning to stop – I wait about a minute (sometimes I lower the heat a little) and listen very closely for the less loud but audible second crack to begin. I don’t like a French roast so I usually turn the heat off when I hear this begin and take my time emptying the drum because the residual heat allows it to continue cooking. The size of your load will change the time for roasting – but I suggest you keep a notebook with the type of bean and the time it took to get to first crack also noting the temp. Then learn to time it to second crack and note that.
Keep your stopwatch nearby. Try also to pay attention to the aroma (the smell of the smoke) it will tell you if you are getting close to where you want to be with patience and experience.
-Pamela HaddockMitchell,
Your question probably could have a complex answer… but…..in short getting an even roast is not a hard thing to do. Quality of the roast is ALWAYS exceptional, reliable and repeatable provided you set things up properly…… there are user-error situations that can cause an uneven roast…. such as roasting at low rpm (less than 6-10RPM), or without the drum being level, or with insufficient heat, but provided the roaster is set up with care, uneven roasts are not at all an issue.
See this article for a more complete answer:
https://blackbalsam.co/rkdrums/index.php/articles/40-
Thanks for the email,
ShaneMine takes 20 minutes to get to first crack with the Colombian and Costa Rican beans using 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 pounds – and this is at a temp of 550 for the 1st roast. If I immediately fill the drum again and roast it takes about 15 minutes for 1st crack – the drum is hot and so is the grill. You could preheat the grill and drum – but it if you don’t mind waiting during that 1st roast – it is preheated for the 2nd and so on. You want those beans to take all the time they need to heat up and for the water to be expelled. I set my speed to 50 rpm. I posted to another person – beans vary by region. South American, Central American beans, for the most part, take a bit longer. Jamaican and Hawaiian beans are fragile and burn up if not hovered over. My rule of thumb is the further from the equator and the lower in elevation the bean is grown – test roast before you do a full batch and take copious notes.
-Pamela HaddockMatt,
The short answer is you need to increase your heat in this case to achieve the desired roast time. You’re looking for an approx 2nd crack at 20-21 mins. So you’re going to need approx 550-575 maybe to achieve that. Adjust the heat up or down to accelerate or decelerate the roast so that the cracks happen on time.
For further study….
Have a look at the following chart:
https://blackbalsam.co/rkdrums/index.php/how-to1/roasting-guide/62-Look at the estimated temperature for achieving a 21 min finish on a 2LB load for the 2LB drum. Remember one thing however is that temperature is a relative thing. If you were to place your probe down near the fire, your temperature would read much higher than before, conversely if yo go to the tip top of the grill the temp would read relatively lower.
What you need to understand is that you need to supply whichever temperature the coffee requires in order to finish on time…. that might be a seemingly high number or a low number, depending on your grill and its internal heat flow.
You know that 510 is causing you to finish very late. So you need to bump up the heat to 550-575 maybe 600 to give that extra coffee mass the heat it needs to convert in the time that we require (21 mins in this case)
Have a read of this 3 part article…
https://blackbalsam.co/rkdrums/index.php/articles/258-
That should explain the concept very well. Please call or write back if you continue to have issues.
Thanks
ShaneArnoldo,
Yes, you can mount the motor to the tray, but it would be best to mount to the frame above and below the tray if possible. Send me some pictures and I can have a closer look for you. Some do of course use the other tray but it is ideal to have you mount it on your favored hand side.
email me at the email at the bottom of the page with pics of your situation and we can see what would be best to do.
Thanks
ShaneJust had a look at your order, and that you didn’t order one of our motors….. at least on the latest order. So, some of my previous response may not apply in your case… Your total weight the motor needs to hold should be around 6.5LB of weight. Also, make sure your rotisserie is 5/16″ and square or we’ll need to rethink things…
Standing by for questions,
Shane
